6th November 2023
bbc.co.uk/accessall
Access All – episode 77
Presented by Nikki Fox and
Emma Tracey
EMMA- We’re
a lot earlier in the week this week, Nikki.
NIKKI- I
know, I know. It felt a bit illegal not battling the traffic on a Thursday
morning, looking like I’d been dragged through a hedge backwards because I’ve
had no time to get ready.
EMMA- So,
did you not have to battle the traffic this morning?
NIKKI- No,
I did, it’s exactly the same. Just earlier on in the week [laughter].
EMMA- Yeah,
you’re not feeling as drained, as burnt out as you do on a Thursday because
you’ve already done a week of work.
NIKKI- That’s
true, yeah, get it done at the beginning of the week. Eh, we’ve got some
exciting news though, don’t we, this week?
EMMA- Oh
my goodness, we do.
NIKKI- Because
our super-secret mission, a bit like it was our very own Challenge Anneka,
wasn’t it? Well, it’s been completed.
EMMA- Yes
it has.
NIKKI- Explain
more, Emma Tracey.
EMMA- So,
last time we had a really, really lovely chat with Strictly Come Dancing’s
first live audio describer, Georgina Rose. And we set her a sneaky task to get
a word, a special word in on the Saturday night show.
NIKKI- Yeah,
and because I’m an egomaniac I suggested the word Foxy, of course I did.
EMMA- I
was so excited to hear it.
[Clip]
GEORGINA- Nigel
and Katya slightly foot kicking but still foxy foxtrot.
[End of clip]
EMMA- Foxy,
she did it!
NIKKI- Hurrah!
MUSIC- Theme
music.
NIKKI- It’s
Access All, the BBC’s weekly podcast which, alongside all the personal chat
from me and Em, is all about disability and mental health. I’m Nikki Fox, and
I’m in our London studio as always.
EMMA- And
in Edinburgh I’m Emma Tracey.
NIKKI- Now,
in case you’ve not come across us before, we are both disabled. We do like to
talk about that a lot; well obviously Emma way more than me.
EMMA- Oi!
NIKKI- I’m blind, I’m blind. What’s on the podcast this week, Em?
EMMA- Now
that we know that railway ticket offices won’t be closing we’ll be looking at
the challenges around fighting for more accessible transport with the laws that
we have at our disposal at the moment.
NIKKI- You
can hear the latest edition of our show by saying, oi Alexa, ask for BBC Access
All – don’t say oi. Or you can whip out your phone, go to BBC Sounds and
subscribe to Access All.
One
of the big stories we’ve been following on the podcast is the proposal from
railway operating companies to close hundreds of ticket offices around the
country. Well, last week the government announced it had asked the companies to
withdraw their proposal after 750,000 people responded to the consultation. A
source told the BBC that railway companies were furious because they claim the
Department for Transport had already approved the plans.
EMMA- One
group who will not be furious about this is Transport4All who campaign for more
accessible transport. And they really led the way with their campaign to ask
disabled people to get involved with the consultation and to respond. Policy
manager Emma Vogelman sent us this voice note:
EMMA V- The
government’s U-turn is certainly a bittersweet victory I think for all disabled
campaigners. We’re of course thrilled that ticket offices won’t be closed in
train stations. But ultimately this consultation shouldn’t have happened. We
recognise the severe impacts that this time has had on disabled people. It’s
caused a huge amount of anxiety and worry. It’s important to that
there are still legal challenges in process, including a judicial review claim
on the accessibility of this consultation.
NIKKI- Well,
I was interested in the decision because 750,000 people replying to a
consultation, Em, is a huge number, isn’t it?
EMMA- I
mean, I’ve never heard of such a number replying to a consultation.
NIKKI- Yeah,
it’s a whopper. The transport secretary said that the industry proposals had
not met the high threshold set by ministers. Now, access to transport is
something we hear a lot about, don’t we, Em? Transport is not straightforward
when you’re disabled and problems happen, and when they do we hear about it. So,
why do the same things keep happening again and again? And a question for you
Emma Tracey: wasn’t access to transport supposed to have been ed out by
the Equality Act 2010?
EMMA- That
was the idea. In October the transport committee of MPs met with a of
experts to discuss this very thing. Some of whom suggested that regulators
should be a greater part of the solution. And the committee asked whether there
were any countries doing this better than the UK at the moment. And one of the
expert lists, professor Anna Lawson, explained the Canada has an accessibility
commissioner, and that’s to get organisations to meet their legal obligations.
So, that commissioner can inspect companies and they can enforce their legal
obligations, and that’s so that individual disabled people don’t have to take
the companies to court on individual personal discrimination cases. And that’s
what has to be done in the UK.
NIKKI- Well,
we’ve only got that very same professor, Anna Lawson, on the line with us now.
Anna is a professor of law at the University of Leeds. And it’s so lovely to
have you on, Anna.
ANNA- Thank
you. It’s a real treat for me to be here.
NIKKI- Now,
we’ve also got Tim McSharry who volunteers with Access Use-Ability Group, and
went through the difficult process of trying to enforce access duties around
plans to change the taxi rank at Leeds station. Hello Tim.
TIM- Hello
Nikki.
NIKKI- Did
I pronounce the surname right, Tim?
TIM- Perfect.
NIKKI- Ah.
We’re going to be coming to you in a little bit Tim, because we know Anna can’t
be with us for too long today, she’s got to get off. So, I’m going to start
with you, Anna. First off could you help us understand this subject a bit more?
Like how straightforward is it to get something done when it comes to
transport?
ANNA- It’s
very fragmented. The Equality Act does cover it, so technically we do have
rights. But enforcing those rights is very, very difficult. Well, it’s hard to
find people to give legal advice, but even if you find them then there are
financial risks. It’s not an easy process. Transport, as we know, it covers so
many different types of transport and there are often different regulators for
each one, who have slightly different types of obligation, so it’s a quagmire.
EMMA- Any
change that happens is that entirely down to an individual having the time, the
energy, the resilience to take a case?
ANNA- A
lot of it is. There’s the Equality and Human Rights Commission; its role is to
take some of that pressure off us. But its resources have been cut back and cut
back and cut back and cut back. And to be honest accessibility it sits
alongside their other duties around equality, which apply to everybody on
grounds of gender, race etc.
EMMA- So,
it’s a small, small part of what they do?
ANNA- It’s
a very small technical part of what they do.
EMMA- And
can organisations not take cases?
ANNA- They
can do, but they have to have a good case. They can’t do it independently, so
they have to have somebody who’s been discriminated against, who’s gone through
the system and experienced the disadvantage. So, you still need that person to
go through all the trauma.
NIKKI- So,
it’s still down to the individual?
ANNA- It’s
still down to the individual.
NIKKI- I
hear about the Equality Act a lot and how it’s difficult for many people to use
it, for many of the reasons that you’ve discussed. But would you say that it is
the protection that disabled people need? Is it good enough?
ANNA- I
think it could be strengthened, it could be simplified, it could be made much
easier for us all to understand. One of my main concerns at the moment is about
the lack of proactive embedding of equality obligations, including around
accessibility. And that’s I think something that we can look to what’s
happening in other countries, for example of things that are going well, like
in Canada. But we can also look to some examples of what’s being done in this
country. So, we have the public websites and mobile apps direct regulations
which came into force a couple of years ago, and those actually do take a much
more proactive approach to embedding basic equality obligations into what
public bodies do when they’re putting their websites together. It puts an
obligation on a government department to do checks, to monitor. It creates a
much easier way for us as individuals to make complaints, which then get looked
at. And that’s actually proving very effective, but we only have that in small,
fragmented areas like that. That sort of approach needs to be much more
mainstreamed.
NIKKI- When
companies are looking at access they should be scared that if they don’t do it
they will get in trouble. To me it’s quite simple.
ANNA- Yes.
NIKKI- Why
aren’t they scared enough?
ANNA- That’s
a really good question. I think even if you do go to court the amount of
damages you get are actually quite small. So, the penalty that the transport
provider has to pay is really very small, so it’s almost a price worth paying
to continue the bad practice. In Canada I was looking and I think the penalty
is something like $250,000 for breach.
EMMA- What
is it here?
NIKKI- A
tenner!
ANNA- [Laughs]
I’m not entirely sure but I think in the region of £5,000 to £10,000.
NIKKI- I
know you’ve got to go and be a professor and all of that?
ANNA- I’ve
got to go and teach.
NIKKI- Thank
you Anna.
ANNA- Bye.
NIKKI- Tim,
are you all right? You’ve been listening to all of that, haven’t you?
TIM- I
think that is an absolutely exemplary thumbnail of all the key issues, and
certainly based on my experience so, so true.
NIKKI- Well,
let’s tell people about your experience. What happened to you, Tim?
TIM- This
was going back to before COVID hit the fan. It was January 2020 when we first
found out that an absolutely excellent level access taxi rank outside the main
concourse of Leeds station was going to be removed and placed on a different
level. When we found that out we clearly said, ‘Have you considered the fact
that it’s lovely level access now, so there’s no stairs, no lifts?’ And what
they were introducing were lifts and stairs, which we pointed out was a bit of
a nightmare for all sorts of reasons.
NIKKI- As
we heard from Anna, it is a risky business taking this kind of action.
TIM- Yes.
We believed that by taking the smalls claims route and making it under a
certain amount we ended up saying it’s not about any money, it’s about the
actual outcome, so we believed we’d crossed the t’s and dotted the i’s, that
we’d protected liabilities, that we could take this to court. But horrifically
and to our shock the local authority engaged the leading QC then from London,
they engaged two leading transport barristers from London, and once they got
involved, obviously they were good at their job, the inequity of legal
knowledge…
EMMA- Of
your team and their team: they went in all guns blazing and you were
volunteers.
NIKKI- That’s
like a film, isn’t it?
TIM- Oh,
it was – I’ve got to say, I still have flashbacks – it was absolutely horrific.
EMMA- So,
your team lost in that instance and the taxi rank is due to go ahead?
TIM- Yes.
The absolute horror within that is their barrister then asked the judge to
award costs. We thought we were safe from costs.
NIKKI- You
had to pay money?
EMMA- You
almost had to pay costs as well, but you didn’t pay it in the end?
TIM- Yes,
of the two barristers and QC or KC that were involved. It would not have been
cheap; I think more than £50 I believe [laughs].
EMMA- 50
grand?
NIKKI- Just
a little bit. No, a bit more than 50 quid.
TIM- I’m
glad to say, and we will be forever thankful to the judge, the judge said, ‘I
am not minded to award costs in this case’.
EMMA- Oh,
thank goodness.
NIKKI- It
really does highlight how difficult and how risky. It’s a risky business, isn’t
it?
EMMA- We
do have a statement from a Leeds City Council spokesperson. They said:
COUNCIL- The
proposals will make New Station Street pedestrian friendly, safer and traffic
free. As part of this LCC, WYCA and Network Rail developed proposals and LCC
gained planning permission to relocate the taxi rank to Bishopsgate Street. The
proposed move means that people will no longer have to cross a busy road to
access the taxi rank. And with the number of people using Leeds station
expected to rise significantly over the coming years it will also make it
easier for people to travel to and from the station using what is already a
very busy street.
NIKKI- Thank
you so much for ing us today, Tim.
TIM- Thank
you.
NIKKI- Tim
McSharry and you volunteer, don’t you, with Access Use-ability Group in Leeds.
This
year’s Disability Power 100 list is out, and the top ten names are going to be
announced in a very glitzy ceremony this week. The aim of this list is to shine
a light on brilliant disabled people to create role models from every sector of
society, and to just basically celebrate lots of incredibly talented people. I
don’t know if you know this Em, but we both know somebody that was on the list.
She was number one for a year.
EMMA- Oh,
Rosie Jones.
NIKKI- Now
you’re just taking the mick. It was me.
EMMA- I
know it was you [laughs].
NIKKI- You
know.
EMMA- I
know it was you.
NIKKI- I
was number one for a year. I didn’t feel particularly powerful that year, but
it was a real honour. Something must have gone wrong I think. And now we’re
lucky enough to be ed by one of the young people who have been named as a
rising star of the year: 17 year-old Ava Joliffe is a deafblind disabled artist
and designer from Lancashire, and with her today is her mum, Laura, who’s going
to be interpreting for her.
LAURA- Hello,
nice to hear from you guys.
AVA- I’m
a little bit nervous.
LAURA- She’s
a little bit nervous unfortunately, and it’s all a bit kind of ooh, so.
NIKKI- Ava,
do not be nervous. Honestly, we’re all right. Well, congratulations Ava. This
is so exciting. How chuffed are you to be on the list?
LAURA- What’s
she saying is she’s very excited and proud to be on the list. It’s a real
privilege to be included. We’ve got some amazing disabled peers. She’s worked
really hard to show that as a deafblind person that she’s a contributor, and
that actually opportunity often is her biggest problem rather than her
disability. And she’s very proud because obviously the award is in the name of
Clare Gray, and so that makes it very special to her.
EMMA- You’ve
been doing this lovely bright and colourful art for a few years now. Can you
just describe it for us?
LAURA- What’s
she saying is she’s always loved to draw and do art. But when she became ill
when she was three years old at that point she lost her hearing, she lost a
large portion of her vision and her speech, and also became wheelchair enabled
as well, so it was her only way of communicating. As she’s got older obviously
she’s learnt BSL and that’s been brilliant; but the art and her are now sort of
inextricably combined together. She uses it as well to bridge that division
because she uses very bright digital art, it’s very pronounced, and that’s to
help engage everyone but especially people with visual impairments like her who
need that bright colour.
NIKKI- That’s
really beautiful hearing that. It’s not just art though, is it? As we said at
the start you are also a designer, and you’ve worked with a couple of brands to
create clothing for disabled children and adults. And I’m just interested to
understand what you add or take away from clothes that are specifically for
disabled people?
LAURA- She’s
had so many problems herself when she’s been looking for clothes on the high
street, finding clothes that are suitable. They make a lot of clothes who are
petite, people who are short, people who are tall; but they actually don’t
consider disability.
AVA- And
fashionable.
LAURA- Yeah,
fashionable, exactly. That’s what she’s saying, as a disabled person she wants
to look fashionable, but they’ve also got to be practical and comfortable. So,
it’s important to understand everyone’s complexities, whether it’s somebody
with limb loss, somebody with difficulties with their tactile needs or
toileting or feeding, all these complexities are not being addressed at the
moment. And so she feels quite ionate she wants to make that change.
NIKKI- Well,
what is next for Ava?
LAURA- Coming
up she’s got a new art exhibition called Paper View, which is portraiture. So,
basically she’s taking images of people and transferring them into portraits.
And you will not know from the picture who’s disabled and who’s not disabled,
but there are a mixture of people with different kinds of disabilities in
there, physical, mental health and what have you. And she just wants people to
see the art and not to make assumptions.
She’s
been working on books as well which has been an ongoing process. She’s been
doing a children’s book for parents and children who have got a visual
impairment. So, she’s always struggled to find books that have been appropriate
for her for her age, that a parent with visual impairment can read to a child
or a child with visual impairment can help read back with a parent. But it is
quite a long process because Ava’s doing the animation and doing the writing.
We have our artistic differences, shall we say, from time to time [laughter].
We’ve
also been working on doing some more design work with an adaptive company.
EMMA- And
Laura, you're Ava’s mum, you’re interpreting today. You must be so proud of
Ava?
LAURA- Oh,
you know what, this girl blows me away. She’s absolutely amazing. Disabilities
aside this girl would always be amazing. She just thrives on her ambition and
doing what she wants to do. But it’s just so lovely that the way that she’s got
it focused and pointed means that other people benefit as well.
NIKKI- And
it’s worth mentioning as well, just so our listeners know, Ava didn’t mind us
asking you that question obviously. But before we finish Ava did mention the
incredible, brilliant, funny, beautiful Clare Gray, who sadly ed away last
month. Now, Clare was a force. She worked tirelessly on the power list. She was
so ionate about it. She just believed so intensely about the power of role
models. So, this one I know this year is going to be dedicated to Clare. Thank
you Clare for everything, and I know you are really missed.
Thank
you guys.
LAURA- Thanks
for having us. It’s really lovely that again with the difficulties that we
have, complexities we have here, sometimes we feel like we get excluded because
obviously it’s a lot to ask someone to cope with the whole range of
complexities that we have and that we have to deal with on a daily basis. And
so Ava gets isolated from a lot of things, so to be included is lovely, so
thank you.
MUSIC- Access
All with Nikki Fox.
NIKKI- Now,
if you went to a residential sixth form college and got up to half the
shenanigans the characters in new BBC Three show, Kirkmoore, do, well then
you’ve got a very fruity past let’s say. The one-off comedy drama is set in a
specialist college which claims to focus on independence and intellect. But the
students have got other things on their mind, and that is nooky, people. We’re
going to explain that one later. But produced by the guys behind the
Inbetweeners, Kirkmoore is written by and stars top disabled talent. The
writer, Andrew Bogle, and one of the shows actors, Keron Day, are here to tell
us more. I’m very excited. All right, Bogle?
ANDREW- Hi.
NIKKI- You
all right?
ANDREW- Yeah,
yeah.
NIKKI- And
so lovely to meet you, Keron. It’s a first.
KERON- Thank
you.
NIKKI- We
watched it, it’s really good. Are you proud of it?
KERON- I’m
so proud of it. It’s amazing to have a show with a disabled cast and disabled
talent behind the screen as well. It’s so important.
NIKKI- For
people who haven’t seen it yet we’re going to play a little clip. Let’s have a
little listen to this bit. This is Keron’s character David, when he finds out
sca Mills, who plays Chloe, is abandoned by a date:
[Clip]
DAVID- Where’s
your date?
CHLOE- Oh,
I’m just waiting for her to get back from the loo. She’s been in there 90
minutes.
DAVID- Hadn’t
we better check she’s okay?
CHLOE- David,
she bailed on me. Might have even climbed out the window, I was that
unattractive. I should have listened to you and stayed in and written my essay.
[End of Clip]
NIKKI- Aw,
I know.
KERON- Poor
Chloe.
NIKKI- But
it was internet dating. It always go horrendously wrong no matter what you do
or who you are. For people that don’t know, Bogle, a specialist sixth form is
for disabled people who can’t get the right with their A-levels in
mainstream school. And some are residential and take students from all over the
country. That’s kind of a little backgrounder for people that don’t know. But
what can people expect when they watch Kirkmoore? Because I don’t think it’s
what people would expect.
ANDREW- The
main priority was to make people real, people who are flawed, normal teenage
life, disabled teenagers who want to get laid like any other teenager.
EMMA- So,
are you saying hat Kirkmoore is funny, but it’s also about people wanting to
get laid? Because there is sex in it, talking about being stuck in a sexual
position.
NIKKI- That
was good [laughs].
EMMA- There’s
porn, there’s dating, there’s clubbing. It’s just a den or debauchery really.
NIKKI- And
you went to residential, didn’t you, Bogle? Was it based on that experience?
ANDREW- I
needed to tone it down for the BBC.
EMMA- You
had to tone it down for the BBC.
NIKKI- Oh
wowzers. Why didn’t I go to a residential sixth form?
EMMA- I
know. I bet you, Keron, you’re sad you didn’t go to a sixth form. Because you
went to mainstream, didn’t you?
KERON- Yeah.
NIKKI- The
mainstream massive.
EMMA- I’d
imagine though that there are still elements of Kirkmoore that you can relate
to as a young nearly 22 year-old?
KERON- Definitely.
I could tell straightaway as soon as I read the script that it was written by a
disabled person because there are nuances in it that I think that only we as
disabled people can get. The scene that jumped out for me to start with was the
one on the toilet.
NIKKI- Oh
yeah.
KERON- With
Colin, the not so useful carer. And I knew straightaway that I’d hopefully get
the part just so I could do that scene.
NIKKI- I
love that. To explain for people that haven’t seen it yet, this is brilliant,
because people that have PAs or carers or whatever language you use will get
this immediately [laughter]. Sometimes when you employ people, some are better
than others. And there’s this dude who’s the PA in the college, isn’t he?
KERON- Yeah.
NIKKI- And
he kind of wants to do it because he wants to say he’s doing it, but he doesn’t
actually want to do what you want him to do.
KERON- He
jumps over all kinds of barriers whilst I’m on the toilet. But I can totally
relate to that because I think we’ve all, anyone who has a er anyway,
knows what those people are like.
EMMA- And
the struggles with , because you had your own struggles with
recently, didn’t you?
KERON- Yes,
as the adult social care system is really difficult to navigate. I think each
one of those words adult social care is kind of misleading. You’re not really
treated like an adult; you’re patronised and dehumanised. It’s very antisocial.
It’s very invasive, it’s unnecessarily invasive. And finally care, they don’t
seem to care.
NIKKI- But
for you and Andrew, in the field you’re in as an actor and a writer, Andrew,
you need a bit of flexibility.
KERON- That’s
a big issue. They tried to cut overnight care, which meant I would have had to have
been in bed by 10 o’clock. Well, if there’s a scene down an alleyway because
Andrew wants me to have a wee down some alleyway or whatever Andrew gets me to
do, I know I can’t get back. And it’s crazy that we have to fight for so much.
NIKKI- Now,
Bogle, how did you get the process of getting this comedy out of your head and
onto paper? What was the whole experience like?
ANDREW- We
had a little bit of time in development, about 18 months to get it how we
wanted to get.
NIKKI- Yeah.
And are you proud, Andrew?
ANDREW- Yes,
I really am. The acting talent is amazing. I’m ashamed that we don’t get more
programmes that show disabled people as real people.
[Clip]
DAVID- Oh
my god, if I don’t lose my virginity soon I’ll explode.
CHLOE- It’s
really not all that, mate.
[End of Clip]
NIKKI- Basically
Bogle’s campaign is to show disabled people as total idiots. I love that. And
Keron, you’re not just in Kirkmoore, you’ve been in Sex Education as well.
[Clip]
KERON- I
wish people understood that our problems come from barriers in society, not
from our disabilities.
MALE- Who
is that?
FEMALE- I’m
not sure. I’ve never seen him before.
FEMALE- I
don’t think he goes here.
KERON- I’m
just very ionate.
[Clip]
NIKKI- What
a big show to be in. That must have been quite cool.
KERON- Yeah,
it was slightly unreal. It was all very quick as well because of the way the
show worked and production wise, I found out a week before and then I was on
the set a week later.
NIKKI- No!
KERON- And
then the week after that I was with Andrew. It was quite a quick turnaround in
between shooting one and shooting the other.
NIKKI- Just
very quickly, what does happen to you in the show, in Sex Education?
KERON- The
clip you just heard was my scene. It was a protest about disability rights and about
accessibility. And that’s where I kind of pop up and make a Mean Girls
reference.
NIKKI- Hey!
KERON- That’s
how I got introduced to that.
NIKKI- What
was the Mean Girls reference?
KERON- There’s
a scene in Mean Girls where a student or past student turns up and all the
other students aren’t sure who she was, and says the lines that I say in the
show. So, it was kind of a direct reference from that film.
NIKKI- I
love that.
EMMA- A
small but perfectly formed part, I would say.
KERON- Yeah.
NIKKI- It’s
been so nice chatting to you both. Andrew, it’s so nice to see you again. And
Keron, it’s so lovely to meet you.
KERON- Can
I just finish on one point?
NIKKI- Go
on, Keron.
KERON- I
hope the industry starts to understand that diversity without disability is not
diversity.
NIKKI- That’s
a very good point to make. Thank you for ending on that, Keron.
EMMA- Thanks
Andrew Bogle.
NIKKI- Thank
you Andrew Bogle, Bogle, Bogle. Kirkmoore is on iPlayer now so definitely go
and have a watch.
EMMA- And
it’s full of disabled actors. We talked about two of them but there are many.
NIKKI- Yes.
Now, last week we were talking about how some card payment devices are
inaccessible to visually impaired people because they don’t have actual
buttons, it’s all that flat touchscreen shenanigans, isn’t it, Ems?
EMMA- Hmm.
NIKKI- Sam
from Essex mailed us to tell us she’s had problems recently because of these
card readers, and she even had to give her PIN out at the dentist. I’ve had to
do that at a petrol station. Now, she says that going to get cash isn’t
possible for her either because the cash machines near her are also not
accessible. But she thinks all this could be easily resolved. We’ve got a little
clip:
SAM- All
the providers need to give to the merchants is some kind of overlay, maybe a
bit of plastic with markers to indicate where the numbers are, especially with
a dot on the number five as we all readily know about. I realise that some
shops may not have this or may lose it, but this is surely a really simple
solution. It’s unfair that as a blind person I’m being deprived of the option
to use my .
NIKKI- An
overlay, Ems. Would that help?
EMMA- Yes,
it would. Actually it comes with most of the machines but they tend to get
thrown out with the box because people don’t know what they’re for. And Katie
also got in touch. She was saying that a good way to get past this is to take
someone’s order like you would take it online, so you send a payment link and
the person can pay for something in the privacy of their device without having
to shout out all of their details in the shop. So, if it’s an inaccessible
machine the shop can send a link and the disabled person can buy it over their
device. It happens. It’s super handy. It’s happened to me; I’ve had it from
small businesses and it did work.
NIKKI- Yeah,
good workaround. Thank you everyone. Thank you Sam and Katie for getting in
touch. We absolutely love to hear from you so do send us an email, it’s accessall@bbc.co.uk. And we’re on
WhatsApp +44 – oh, that’s a new one – 330 123 9480. Or you can message us on X,
formerly known as Twitter. When are we going to stop saying formerly known as
Twitter, eh?
EMMA- I
don’t know. We’ll be back with you at the same time next week. Bye.
NIKKI- Same
time, same place. Goodbye.
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PRESENTER- You know when you’re worried about something,
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